The Black Book of Communism

[jcrane]

Courtois argues that we do not pay enough attention to the crimes committed by the Communists. What do you think? Should we have more museums like the Holocaust Museum, but for the victims of communism. Why do you think that these have become the "forgotten victims?" You may want to read the reviews of Courtois book at

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...stomer-reviews

[Piotr]

I agree with Courtois opinion that we do not pay enough attention for crimes committed by communist. In my opinion we do not need to build more museum of victims of communism but treat this topic more seriously. Especially, for people who come from countries that had never been under communism, they often consider this governing system as something wrong but in the same time very funny. They tent to forget about one hundred million of victims in last century slaughtered by communists.

However, I would add one more reason why the communist crimes are covered up to Courtois list. I would suggest that the main reason why we concentrate on Nazi crimes forgetting about communist is that the Hitler’s genocide was infamous directly after the World War Two. In communist countries, people in schools were learning about Holocaust but they did not know about Ribentropp-Molotov pact. We need to remember that especially in countries of Eastern Europe the largest crimes were committed in early stage of this system. In Soviet Union the worst times were even before the Second World War, while in other countries, directly after its end. Later in those countries for next approximately forty years communists were ruling and hiding or changing the most facts about their crimes. When finally in many countries communism felt, most people remember the last stage of it, which was usually the best time of it.

[ronalton]

I agree with Piotr that we should concentrate more on the topic of communism victim. From my opinion that there's no need to build one more or another communist museum up, I think that it's just going a waste the resources and space. If one communist museum have all the information that one need or more than one need in most topic that is already enough. Having to forget about millions of people that were murdered during communism and blame the system that it was not a very efficient on controling the citizens was not a very moral thinking at all. Foreigners where their country was never been a communist state before will not know that feeling of being under communism. I don't even know how it would feel living under communism. I myself have not been to any communist museum before, so at this point I have no idea of what I can say about communism. From a foreigner such as me, and from the studies that I had learned from history class, I can only say that it was not a very pleasent living under communism from my opinion.

===TOnybanany===

[vesta]

Being born during Communism however not experiencing it, I have been continuously encountered with stories about Communism. Indeed they are not less horrible than those of the Holocaust. I therefore agree with Courtois that enough attention is not paid to the crimes of Communism.
A significantly, significantly higher number of people died during Communism. However, most people would believe that the deaths were higher in number during the Holocaust. This must be because mainly Jews were exterminated during the Holocaust, but during Communism crimes were centered on those who were opposed to Communism.
The Holocaust and Communism were both significant events, incredibly shocking, but part of our history. It cannot be that one pays more attention to one event but not to the other. With this people certainly do not realize the mistakes made in the past so they can prevent them from happening in the present and future. They should never forget the past.
Yes, we indeed should have more museums, and they should be picturing Communism how it really was. Why should one neglect history in which people were persecuted because they were not Communist, with this not having access to jobs, although they need it? Why should we forget how people suffered, how they were persecuted, discriminated against, hated, killed? We should not forget the Holocaust and we should not forget Communism.

[Peja]

This issue definitely deserves more attention than is given to it. WWII and the Holocaust, are the two most tragical events in history of human kind. The human death toll of the Jewish population is estimated to be around 6 million, the total of deaths in WWII is around 25 million!!! Enormous numbers of wasted lives. If one juxstaposes these statistics with the number of people killed by communism regimes, it is alarming because an estimated number of deaths under communism add to hundreds of millions!!! During the cultural revolution, Mao alone was resposible for the deaths of approximately ten million people, which is 4 million more than in the entire Holocaust. It would be immoral to state that the Holocaust was not one of the most tragic and insane events in human history, and every well informed and educated person on the world knows it and respects the victims of the Holocaust. Nevertheless, the numbers speak for themselves, communism is responsible for much more lives than the whole WWII. It is also alarming that the fall of communism, in most countries that were communist, transpired only twelve years ago and still not much attention is given to it. However, it is true that for a long time it was very difficult to access that data from the Russians and that even today the crimes of communism are not completely divulged. So it is interesting to compare the notoriety of these two tragic events. Holocaust is at the pinnacle of all persecutions ever done by man-kind but we must also discern the crimes done by the regime that was based on exploitation, oppresion of opposition and non-opposition, etc. I am also not saying that we should suddenly start building museums of communism but remember those people that were victims of it. We should also value the individuals that were not affraid to oppose this regime and with the risk of their lives fight against it. These are the things we must give our attention to and which we have to value and learn from.

[vesta]

I have more to add to my previous posting, which might be slightly vague, since it does not deal with the Courtois reading. I very much agree with the main point Courtois makes (already said in my first posting). As Courtois writes, “terror has always been one of the basic ingredients of modern Communism”, and playing a major role in “the century of human catastrophes”. It is not “okay” to continue viewing Communism with more or less neglecting it. Courtois makes a great point: Why is it not okay to make an advertisement with face of Hitler, but it is fine to make one with Stalin or Mao? As Courtois questions: “Would anyone even dare to come up with the idea of featuring Hitler or Goebbles in commercials?” (Of course not.) Further, why is the Holocaust often addressed as a “crime against humanity”? Was not Communism full of such crimes?
One of the most significant points Courtois makes is that it appears that the horrible events of Communism were shadowed because of the “participation of the Soviet Union in the victory of Nazism”. Now, of course they did participate, but there is no reason of making Communism seem less dreadful just because the Soviet Union was against Nazism.

[jcrane]

In my opinion, I do believe we should have some kind of memorial for the victims of communism, because it is true that people give more attention to the victims of the Holocaust than of the Communists. For example in Terezin they had the names of all the children that died in the camp written on the wall, and for the victims of Communism I doubt that they have that sort of memorial. However, I will take myself for example, I never thought that the Communists killed so many people while they were in power. Many people are not very well educated on the subject of Communism, and that is why people know less about the crimes they committed. On the other hand, we have the Holocaust, which every one knows about because it was a planned genocide against a specific group of people, and people study it more in school. We can also look at the Gypsies that were killed during the Holocaust, why does no one really know about them being deported and killed in the concentration camps? It all comes down to the lack of knowledge about these killings. One cannot argue that the Holocaust had a greater impact on the world and that is why they know more about it. Communism had an enormous impact on the world, and tragically, it killed more people than during Nazism.

________ There should be more museums about Communism to educate people about it. However, in my opinion the museum we visited yesterday did not portray much of what communism really was about. The so-called "artifacts" of the museum looked fake, and for some one that does not know anything about Communism would have a hard time actually understanding this museum. I also did not see a nice memorial space (with flowers) for the people that died during Communism!

[P_squared]

My answer to this posting varies slightly in different situations, but overall, I believe that the world does not pay enough attention to the crimes committed by the Communists. I hesitate to exclude the words “I believe” in the previous sentence because I do not know to what depth other schools go into about the crimes committed by the Communists. In our history class, however, we have spent more time talking about the crimes committed by the Nazis then the crimes committed by the Communists.

Of course, it is easier to talk about the crimes committed by the Nazis than those committed by the Communists, since World War II took place over 50 years ago, allowing historians more time to probe the subject. It is also more difficult to criticize a political party that still exists, like the Communist party in the Czech Republic. I believe that the victims of Communism have become the “forgotten victims” because of the previous two reasons mentioned, especially the latter – a movie about the horrors of Nazi extermination camps is easier to release than a movie about the deaths of civilians under Communism. Still, I believe that not enough attention is paid to the crimes committed by the Communists.

The world should have more museums like the Holocaust Museum, but for the victims of Communism, so that more attention is paid and more respect is given to the gravity of the crimes committed by the Communists. If museums about the ravages of Communism were built, the world might begin to pay more attention to the crimes Communists committed.

[Victoria]

I do agree with Courtois that we should pay more attention to the crimes commited by communists. Before studying in this class I was aware that the time of communism had been a horrible period for many countries, but I was not aware that so many people had been killed. I think the reason that much more attention is paid to crimes commited during the Holocaust is because it was a much more 'large scale' event, and it focused on a whole race of people. I think that there should be museums dedicated to the people who died under communism for expressing their beliefs, and going against the system. I believe that communism was a good idea, but it was carried out in a HORRIBLE manner, which basically whent against all of the original purposes and beliefs of communism. I do not think that humans have the capacity to carry out a system in which everyone is supposed to be equal, which is why communism was such a disaster, and will never work.
I agree with Piotr on the fact that the issue should be treated more seriously. I do not think that building a bunch of museums will automatically fix the problem of the "forgotten victims". More books should be written, and more time should be spent learning about communism. It is a very vague topic for many people, and it is often treated as a joke. Having never lived in communism in my life, I did not know much about it, except for the basics, untill now. I find it important to treat the topic of the victims of communism, and communism as a whole a little more seriously, and a little more in depth. After people finally learn exactly what was going on during communism, and how and why all these people were killed, then I think people will beggin to remember all these victims.

[Zoe]

As Curtious writes, „history is the science of human misfortune,“ it is. We are unlucky to live in a bloodstained century, full of terror and violence. In the previous centuries few people and countries were spared from mass violence. Czechoslovakia, too, did not escape it. It is unfair to say that we don’t pay enough attention to the crimes committed by the communists. In school, we have discussed the topics of World War I & II, the Holocaust, Communism, Nazism, and many others. I believe that we have covered all the topics equally, and one is not more important than the other.

Stephane Courtios has a very interesting opinion, however her opinion might be only based on her. Perhaps, we are forgetting the thousands of people who have died during the communism era, however we must not also forget the number of deaths who have died during the Holocaust, World War I & II, etc. Curtios’s novel is more likely based on the crimes committed within USSR. She constantly discussed the „Secret Speech,“ by Khrushchev, and discusses it as „one of the watersheds in the life of contemporary communism.“ However, on the other hand, one might write that we dont pay enough attention to the crimes that democracy has commited in the present century. Perhaps, scholars need more time to gather information and to uncover the mysteries of the communist era.

Perhaps, we should have more musuems of every kind. I still haven’t visited the communism museum in Prague, however I heard that the „artifacts“ look very artificial, and that the museum does not portray the real truth of the communist era in Czechoslovakia. With the help of musums, such as the Holocaust and Communism museums, all around the world, people remember the loved ones, who passed away. We must not forget that everyone deserves respect; whether they did or did not deserve death.

[nina]

I do believe that the Courtois's argument concerning the communism is true. Now days, people are well educated how oppressive and harsh communist government was, however, the whole situation about communist's crimes is not taken seriously enough in the eyes of the majority of people. One of the reasons for that might be that not long ago many of "those" people were a part of the communist system, educated by the means of the oppressive government were such crimes were justified as necessary to defeat the enemy and the threat of the system. Courtois argues that the reason for the world's silence was also the idea that the Soviet Union had an important participation in the "victory over Nazism", losing great numbers of soldiers and its people. After the World War II,"the world" focused on the crimes and the atrocities committed by the Nazis, placing the followers of Nazism as big "badders" in the eyes of the people, were the Soviet Union held a great part in their defeat. Soviet Union was on the side of the victors, and the rest of the world did not bother to get involved into their internal affairs in the country and the system.

The idea that the communist system committed crimes in its own borders and territories stands as one of the important aspects of why are these victims becoming forgotten. Nazis exterminated people of the occupied territories, were those actions made the people of those territories to raise their voices about the crimes committed on them by the occupation, while the people inside the Soviet Union and other Communist systems had a harder time dealing against their own governments and systems.

In my own opinion, building of museums and more often mentioning of the victims of communism, is a way how to remained and educate people of such crimes. However, it is necessary to mention how communists committed the crimes because of people's ideologies and beliefs, not ethnicity. One of the strengths of communism was fear among its people, which also caused the crimes to be forgotten and sometimes neglected.

[Sergey]

Do I agree that we have to pay more attention to crimes of communism? We have to pay attention to any crimes that caused such amount of deaths; however, I strongly disagree with terminology. Crimes of communism! Did communism commit crimes itself? Did Karl Marks or Fredrick Engels in their works inspire mass repressions? The answer is “no.” It was a group that governed the country, which committed the crimes. Nobody in the government disobeyed Stalin when commanded to fulfill executions, because everybody realized that if they did disobey, there still would be a person who would fulfill those executions; however, this time the names of those, who disobeyed would be on the death list as well. I admit that the crimes were terrible violation of all the moral laws; however, communism was just a regime that assisted the group of people in committing them.

Should the officials who ordered executions be tried? It is easy to look at the events from the western perspective: they committed and therefore they should be punished. However the fact that those people DID NOT live in democracy is often dismissed. The fact that people were signing their death sentence, even by questioning the orders, is not considered. The list of crimes committed by those persons might be long and include thousands of names, yet, for a person, which is more valuable: thousands of meaningless names on a paper, or own name? Now it is meaningless to punish those officials, even if there are any alive, the torture of their own conscience is, perhaps, greater then any sentence that can be decided on today.

In general, I agree with everything Coutois argues about the crimes. I admit that this period of time in history was truly awful, that all information was under lock, and that there was nothing like independent media. However, I do not agree with use of word communism. Courtois overuses this concept, communism was nothing but a platform for repressions. That is the reason why I do not agree that communist symbolic is shameful. Why should we hide a flag that millions of people were fighting for in the WWII, assured in rightness of the system. Denying communist symbolic would be a simple disrespect for all those people. Nobody’s saying that american flag and american anthem should be denied, even though history knows examples of murders committed by the american government. I do not consider it wrong that Italian tourists in Prague are wearing communist symbolic. As a matter of a fact it is a huge part of Russian history, which cannot be forgotten. I think that Stalin’s repressions should not be always linked to the idea of communism, because communism might prove successful in smaller more industrialized country, however experience tells us: it is totally unsuitable for Russia with its huge farming lands and lack of industry.

[COCO]

Every one knows that communism was a horrible period and that many people were killed by the communists. However, when people are asked to compare the Holocaust and Communism, everyone always sees the Holocaust as hundred times worse. However, the truth is that ten million people were killed during the Holocaust and over a hundred million during communism. This shows, that the Communist system killed more people than the whole Second World War together (25million). I think the main reason why the crimes of the holocaust are known and talk about more compared to communism is that the Holocaust already ended and the Nazis who were in charge are no longer a threat. Thus, people feel comfortable talking about the crimes of the Nazis and teach others about it. However, Communism on the other hand is still surviving in some countries and is still a possible threat to the world. Also, during the Holocaust, the Nazis concentrated on specific groups such as the Jews, Gypsies, etc., however in Communism all kinds of citizens were executed, anything from politicians to mothers of families, and most of the time the only thing they had in common was that they didn’t agree with the communist system. Furthermore, both communism and the Holocaust were horrible times and they deserve to be equally recognized. However, that is not the case right now, for there are barely any communist museums and memorials compared to the Holocaust.

[Helena]

I agree that the crimes of communism should be recognized more. Memorials for the people killed should be made. The holocaust’s crimes are known all over the world, memorials and museums can be found everywhere, especially in Europe. Like Phillip said, I do not know if communism and its crimes are studied more in other schools. This will also vary from country to country. However, in our class we studied the Nazi crimes more.

Before I read this article I didn’t know about the killing the communist did. This is perhaps one of the reasons why there are no or hardly any memorials for the killed. If museums were build to inform people about the crimes they would be recognized more. More attention would be paid to the killed, more memorials would be built and people would not see communism as something funny like Piotr said. As Piotr said, this subject should be taken more seriously. People that never experienced Communism or were not educated about it see this topic as funny. They laugh and make jokes about it without knowing that all these people were killed.

People should pay more to the crimes of communism and memorials should be built!!

[Maria]

"The Crimes of Communism" was really interesting to read, and I completely agree with Courtois. I always knew that communism was really bad, and being born in a country that was communist, I heard about it from my family. But when I saw the list of the numbers of the people who were killed, I was shocked. I never realized just how many people died. Technically, the deaths during communism can't be considered as genocide, because not only people of one race or religion were killed. I think that this fact is one of the reasons why it is not talked about that much. People talk about the holocaust all the time, and that's right. We should definetly talk about the holocaust and about all the victims. But we should also talk about communism much more than we talk about it. People should be informed about it. How many people know that about 100 million people died during communism? I certainly didn't know it. We should remember the victims of communism, and as Helena said, memorials should be built for the victims. Students should learn about communism in school and be aware of what happened.
As Courtois said in the reading, some people demanded that there should be trials for communist leaders as there were for the Nazis. I think that this is right. How come those murderers could escape punishment. Many of them are no less guilty than the Nazis. What I can't believe is that many of those old communists who did terrible things and were in the secret police like the KGB or STB are still in high positions in the post-communist countries.
I definetly think that communism should be talked about and that victims should be honored.

[Kristina]

I indeed believe that there should be made closer attention to the communist victims. There are many museums for the holocaust victims, why should the communist victims not have the same treatment?
I am one of the people who had never heard about communism before. Before this year I had no idea why Stalin was terrible if even more terrible than Hitler. As Courtois argues, people saw Stalin as a hero. That was what I thought he was. People do not consider the communists actions as important as what the Nazis did, and that is completely wrong. Now when communism has ended people should have the right to speak about their true opinion which they for so long had to hide.
I was very surprised that Courtois argues there are aproximately 100 million people who was killed during Communism. I had no idea how these people was used as free labor and killed by the secret police if they did not follow the communist's rules and believes. As Courtois states in the reading the victims were considered "abuses commited by Stalin." That is a very nice sentence, and it tells the truth. The people were under complete control of the Russian government and under complete control of Stalin.
If we made more museums to show what truely happened during the communist period, I am sure that people would understand the victims situation much better than we already do. They are "the lost victims of communism," because nobody actually understands what terrible conditions they went through during the dictatorship of Stalin. People should know the truth, in order to prevent this terrible event to happen again.

[Irina Chupykova]

I agree with Courtois views about communism and than we do not pay enough attention to the crimes that were commited. In my opinion there should be more museums that would some how make us closer to what was happening these times and we should pay more attention to it. It is helpfull not only for the students to learn about the crimes that where commited under communism but also for the people for example who did not know what was it like to leave in communist countries. It is important to make people learn all our history, not just part of it. Just like we all study the holocaust many times and in details, we must study all other parts of our history. Many people, if they were asked, could say alot about the the idea of communism. However, many people do not actually know about the many crimes that were commited by the communists. Therefore we should teach, by use of school and museum, what happened in Communism. It is good that there are museums of the holocaust, however if their ae holocaust museums there should also be museums for victims of all crimes, like communism.
It seems that indeed victims of communism are the "forgotten victims" We seem to neglect the facts that so many people died under it, yet we never for a second forget the holocaust. The problem with the victims under communism was that not many people knew the whole truth about the crimes, many indeed knew nothing at all about them. Unlike in the holocaust, where people knew widely that Jews were being persecuted and deported, the communist worked under cover and did things very secretly. This secrecy mande that people were unaware of the crimes. It seems that many people therefore denie them or think them less important just because they weren't visible.

[ustych]

It is certainly difficult to argue against the facts that Courtois provided in the book, but his conclusions are extremely controversial and even shallow. In fact, I disagree with Courtois on the title he has given to the book. "The Black Book of Megalomaniacs" would be a far more appropriate, and would accurately attribute these crimes against humanity to those bileful dictators who are responsible, rather than a political ideology. I find that labeling dictators such as Stalin as communists is quite ridiculous, since their rule had no semblance whatsoever to that advocated by classic Marxist philosophy. They betrayed the values of equality, patriotism and personal sacrifice that the communist philosophy instills in its followers. Moreover, it is obvious that the political philosophy they followed had nothing to do with Marx whatsoever, but rather with Charles Darwin. I am talking about the survival of the fittest, a philosophy that is incompatible with any set of moral beliefs or principles, including Communism. It motivates the individuals who follow it to disregard their consciousness and do whatever it takes to preserve their position in the environment (or, in humans' case, the society). Stalin is a clear adherent of this philosophy who lacked all moral virtue whatsoever and went as far as executing his friend and right-hand man Berria and many others whom he deemed a threat to his survival (the obvious analogy would be the Night of Long Knives, which highlights similarities between Hitler and Stalin).
At this point, of course, the reasons for the stark contrast between attitudes towards Communism and Nazism are obvious. Nazism is a political and social philosophy that endorses and promotes mass murder as a tool for reaching its ultimate goal--Aryan paradise. Communism, on the other hand, promotes neither violence nor genocide (discounting the references to a popular revolution, but at no point does the Manifesto state that it has to be done through violent means). Thus, the population has a general aversion towards one system and not towards the other. Now, we have established that wearing a T-Shirt with an image of Marx would be perfectly acceptable (not that I know anyone who would do that...Marx is not very photogenic). Of course, symbols of CCCP are a bit more controversial, but should not be banned or viewed with distaste unless they are featuring Stalin, Brezhnev or the KGB. Millions of people have sacrificed their lives in order to realize the communist dream--which ultimately culminated in the creation of the Soviet Union. Unarguably, their dream was transformed and disfigured by a succession of dictators, from Stalin to Brezhnev, but the people have sincerely believed that they were building a positive future through hard work and personal sacrifice. The hammer and the sickle, the Soviet flag or the anthem should not be viewed with any negative connotations because we must pay respect to those who have, after all, created a great superpower through their work, even if it was later used for questionable goals. We should not fear this part of our history, but rather embrace it and build upon it. The Russian Federation's decision to adopt the old Soviet anthem (excluding the words, of course) is a manifestation of this idea.

More museums are needed to commemorate this blemish on the face of humanity for what it was--a tragic expression of megalomania and ambition rather than a crime of a particular system.

[Sarah]

The crimes committed by the communists have gone unnoticed by the majority of the world well, only the parts that were not effected or still aren't effected by these crimes. The nature of these crimes, and the fact that they were committed, need to be acknowledged by the international community today. There needs to be more attention paid to the victims of communism. But it isn't as easy as blaming the Holocaust. We aren't aware of all the atrocities that the communists committed in the first place, even though we are now well aware of the number of people that were killed. There was no actual collective group that was killed (like the Jews by the Nazis), there were people killed for actual reasons. This isn't as bad (but still bad) as killing someone solely based on his or her race or religion. I'm not sure if the world is ready for a Museum devoted to the victims of the crimes of communism, like the museum of the holocaust. But that is only because the victims don't seem to be collected as one group, it would be a very varied museum, ranging from people in the USSR, to Afghanistan, to Korea. But clearly this book has opened a window of opportunity to inform the world about the crimes and atrocities of communism.

[Teen]

Courtois is right that the crimes of Communism do not get enough attention. Before we had launched our unit on Communism, I had no idea of the depth of the crimes committed by the Communists; I hadn’t even known that they have done bad things. So I was greatly surprised of the total number of people killed during the Communist regimes from Courtois’s article. How could nobody have mentioned it before and how could I possible not have known it? To me, only the Nazis were known as the evil guys. But the thought that the Communists had murdered way more people than the Nazis, and on top of that, their own people who obeyed them well, would have never occurred to me. Why then, do we pay more attention to the victims of the Holocaust and the Nazi officials rather than paying great attention at the victims of Communism and the Communist leaders? They are both important, but macroscopically, the numbers speak for themselves.
It is amazing. I wonder if most people are ignorant or just try to avoid the topic. People, not just kids at school, should be more educated and informed about Communism. And why have people not thought of setting up more monuments and museums? The museum of Communism in Prague was not that great although I did enjoy going there, but the movie left the greatest impression on me, even though it barely covered ten years ( or that was the part where I paid most attention). That might not have been the best of museums, but it is a big step towards educating all age groups and we should have those in more places. As some museums, I have to admit, are boring as hell and I can’t wait to get out of them. I did find this one interesting because it was not only writings and black and white pictures, but had pretty cool objects from which I’m sure little kids would learn from too.