Class Matters (due Tue., Oct. 18)

[freemanjud]

Reading: Janny Scott, "Life at the Top in America Isn't Just Better, It's Longer," New York Times (May 16, 2003) http://www.learntoquestion.com/resou...es/000787.html


As we discussed today with respect to Adam Davidson's 1990 short film, "The Lunch Date," it's not only race but it's also--and often equally--class that plays a role in separating one group from another.

Nowhere was this clearer than an article that appeared this past spring in the New York Times, Janny Scott's "Life at the Top in America Isn't Just Better, It's Longer." Scott traced the experiences of three different New Yorkers--Jean Miele, Will Wilson, and Ewa Rynczak Gora--upon having heart attacks. And what she finds is chilling, to say the least.

So, after reading this article, weigh in on this question: we have been looking at the pernicious effects of race-based discrimination over the past week or so. You have come up with some thoughts about how, over time, we can change those patterns. But class poses a different set of issues. We cannot change class overnight and consequently, class divisions and distinctions remain. As we see in this article, they are at the center of life and death situations.

So, what do you think we can do, as a society, to address the injustices identified in this article? Why is health care tied to class (or vice versa) and what can be done about that? In short, what can be done about class? If we assume that we will never be an entirely classless society, then how do we grapple with the disparities between classes in any sort of just society?

[Pumpkinloaf]

What can we do about disparities in class? What a question! That’s a tough one because sadly I assume that we will never be without classes in our society so the question is not about eliminating the classes themselves, but the gaps among them.

I cannot possibly imagine how difficult it would be to tackle class issues at the root and to solve these problems. I feel that the most effective method, which is not necessarily any more doable than eliminating class, would be to fix the health care issues. Health care needs to be made much more easily available for people in the lower classes of our society. They should never be in a situation like Ms. Gora and worry about having to use a home therapy to remedy a heart attack! Members of the lower class should have just as much access to the best hospitals as someone of Mr. Miele’s status. If they do not have options when it comes to situations like these, it shows that the life of an underprivileged person is not valued as highly as that of someone higher on the social ladder and that is completely unacceptable.

[candytuft]

I agree with pumpkinloaf that our society will never be without classes and the best we can do is to try to lessen the gaps. Medical care has always been a privilege of the upper class. Many working class people cannot afford medical procedures or insurance and so often go without medical help. Upper class people, like Mr. Miele, have the money to easily afford the best and newest when medical attention is necessary. Our society is one of capitalism and even when it comes to the health of people, money is the driving factor. If someone can afford better procedures, they can have them. If they cannot afford them, they are left with cheaper, worse options.

I do not know how we can close the gaps between the classes. In fact, recently, the gaps have been increasing. The upper class is getting richer and the working class is getting poorer. Most other industrialized countries have free health care while the United States is privatizing its healthcare. Perhaps if we were to change the way we handle our healthcare, we can lessen the gaps between the classes.

[yellowcat]

It's extremely hard to give an answer to that question, because in reality, there will never be an end to classes. No matter what there will always be those who are poor and those who are rich. It is so hard to try to make the gap between social classes smaller, because along with people having more money, people also feel like they have a certain entitlement for more respect or power over other people.

Unfortunatly, the example that Janny Scott described is very very real. And it's horrifying to think that if you're on the verge of death or experience a medical emergency you choose money over your life. Because the question becomes do i want to live and have to pay or do i want to take the chance and possibly die. It's a crazy issue and it is so commonplace in our world.

I can't give an answer to how to close the social gap between classes but it's impossible. I wish i had the answer but i don't.

[loofa746]

like the previous posts have mentioned, it is basically impossible that our society will ever be classless. even in a society with widening class gaps, i think that healthcare should be something blind to class

if someone has more money, i can understand that they are allowed to have more privledges with amenities in life, like nicer cars or houses. but i dont see why class should determine one life worth saving over another. Because Ms.Gora was in the lower class, she didn't even want to have an ambulence because it would cost too much, even though an ambulence would be the most efficient way to transport her to a hospital as soon as possible. And because she was in a lower class, she had to wait two hours just to have people at the hospital determine she was infact having a heart attack, somehting that was determined right away in Mr. Miele's case.

there will always be classes in society and im not sure what can be done to make the gaps less wide. all i can say is that i think healthcare should be free, so atleast when people of different classes are faced with a similar situation in terms of medical assistance, they are treated more equally.

[yummigummi]

I agree with pumpkinloaf in that it is hard for us to eliminate classes in society, but it would be a much easier task to eliminate the gaps between them. I think that for something that happened with each of the three cases to never happen again, there should be laws against discriminatory health care. It was not right for the EMT to only ask two out of the three patients looked at in the article which hospital that they wanted to go to. If there is a hospital where they know that the patient can get the best of care for whatever is ailing them, they should automatically be taken there. Especially when it comes down to something so serious as a heart attack where every moment longer you wait, that could be another minute or two taken off of your life.

I think health care is tied to class because many people assume that because you may not have health insurance or are not able to pay for your medical care, then you come from a lower class. Basically, the amount of money you have defines the class you fit into, which is true of the world today. Personally, I believe that class is really how you carry yourself. You could be the poorest person in the world, but if you carried yourself in such a way, then that persona would be conveyed to everyone around you.

There is not really much that you can do about class. If this were a perfect world, I would say that no matter what job you had, everyone would have to make the same amount of money (preferably a lot), so there wouldn't be any confusion about who made more money than whom. But it isn't. Class is just something that will be around for many centuries to come just like it has been the many centuries before.

[BrassMonkey]

People with more money often enjoy a better standard of living than those with less money. Disregarding emotional instability, lack of motivation, and a negative outlook on life, this statement is usually true.

The idea behind this principle is that people with more money can pay for better services than the masses. In turn, those services are more expensive because their are frequently fewer of them available and in order to make a larger profit the service providers need to charge more money.

I believe all this is necessary for new firms to establish themselves and new products and ideas to be released.

A few years ago, cell phones were really expensive, but now people of all classes have them and consider them a vital part of their lives. As time went on and more firms began investing in cell phone production, they became cheaper due to competition in the market. It is the same thing with any other service, even Medical services.

The basic services, like the emergency room, were available to everyone, even Gora. Mr. Miele had the choice of going to a regular emergency room, but because he had more money, he was able to go to a more exclusive treatment facility. Eventually, the treatment facility that he went to will become the norm for the masses, just like the what happened to the cell phone. However, when that becomes the norm, something better will be made and will only be available to people with more financial resources.

The only thing that I found very upsetting was the lack of compassion for Gora. They gave her an appointment in seven weeks for a stress test. The woman has just experienced a heart attack and the hospital assumes that she will be fine for another seven weeks? The only justifiable reason for this is that they have a lack of resources to fulfill the needs of their many patients in New York. The solution to this seems to raise taxes, or find some kind of way to invest money into healthcare, specifically aid to poorer people.

I agree with candytuft that the gap between the rich and the poor is increasing. It was clearly evident during hurricane Katrina. In addition, I agree that if the U.S provided free healthcare, it would even the playing field. However, with the huge budget deficit, it does not seem that this will happen anytime soon.

[Hillel2000]

Lessening the gaps between the social classes is no easy task. Nevertheless, steps can – and should be – taken to resolve the issues discussed in the New York Times article.

As the article clearly points out, the quality of health care received has a lot to do with social class. The reasons are simple: those with more money have an easier time paying for medial bills and insurance. Furthermore, more money means the potential for a higher education. And in terms of preventing health problems, knowledge is key.

What can be done? As candytuft has suggested, we should do something about health care. If the upper class has plenty of money to spend on health care, and if richer people have the luxury of spending money on optional treatment as well, medical organizations should increase costs slightly, and use the money from the higher costs to help the lower classes. Sponsor free public information sessions, hire more doctors at hospitals, etc. Easier said than done, though…

In a number of ways class is harder to deal with than race is. While public schools can integrate students of various backgrounds, schools with no (extra) tuition are more likely to be attended by students from families with less money. Even in college the same problem remains.

Since history has proven that communism does not work out ideally, we have to accept the class differences but not let them become obstacles. I agree with pumpkinloaf that it’s safe to assume that class differences are here to stay. If the people up top sacrificed even just a little bit, it would make a difference. (Instead, the government has arranged for tax cuts for the rich…)

BrassMonkey also brings up an excellent point about the growing availability of cell phones. There must be a way to do the same for health care.

[Silversword]

I agree with the previous posts, class will never be eliminated. Our nation as a whole is motivated by money. There for the ones with the most amount reep the greater benefits. Like the saying goes nothing in life is free and medical care is far from cheap. Whats upsetting is that the lower class does not get treated in a short amount of time or treated for the right thing.

What is most unerving is the fact that the ones who have the more money are treated quickly and dont have to pay for unnecesary appointments. My grandmother has been in and out of the hospital for years for the same problem, some of her side effects caused her to be mean. This is really sad because growing up I didnt like my grandmother because i was unaware that this mean streak was due to medical problems and not just her personality.

Unfortunetly the only way I can even begin to think of to close the gap between classes is better health benefits for the lower class. The one down fall to this is the people making the rules are not of the lower class and do not experience waiting in a hospital room for up to 5 hours waiting to see if they are in fact having a heart attack. The only way to fix the gap is make it possible for people ,similar to Ms Gora, to not worry about calling an ambulence when they feel unwell because of the money issue.

Life should not be based on the money it takes to keep it intact, but unfortunetly thats what it has become.

[Euripedes]

The best things come at higher prices. (I mean you’re not going to see a Mercedes Benz selling cheaper than four wheels on a box.) As seen through Mr. Miele, healthcare is tied to class because upper class people are usually situated in areas where the best health care is available. (Just as he was located near the best hospitals in the state.) And because the best healthcare is usually the most expensive, the upper class is able to afford it.

I agree with yummigummi’s opinions that many people stereotypical believe that lower class citizens will not be able to pay for their medical care. This reminds me of the Eddie Murphy skit, where as a white man (or otherwise seen as a rich man, as race is tied to class) the money was literally thrown to him.

In order to decrease the benefit gaps between upper and lower class citizens we must work on improving the quality of lower lass life- a challenge I know. The upper class is “almost in variably in the best positions to learn new information early”, therefore extra work must be made in order to educate lower class members on different health risks and treatments.

We must work on reducing the disadvantages of the lower class. One of the problems they face is that there is “a lot more work stress”. But what can you do about that when many of the people at the top of the ladder have worked their way up there? Have they not earned their positions through heir own stresses? Yes I agree that many have worked there way up there, but also many were born into well off families that offered them the opportunities to earn great educations that would bring them to the top. That means that we must clear up disparities at lower levels in order to truly make a change.

Class will always exist (if not always with money). People will always try to classify themselves in order to make them seem better than a group below them. While we may not be able to remove social class barriers, we can try and make sure that they are treated equally under the law in serious issues such as health.

[almosteris]

"The U.S. "is the only country in the developed world except for South Africa, that does not provide health care for all of it's citizens."
That's a quote I got from a really interesting site on U.S. health care: http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf.
As a society I feel that we should address this injustice by creating national health care and having more financial aid programs for those in need. I agree with Hillel2000 that it is far from easy but not impossible. Hospitals should get more funding along with public education where there should be a reform in health classes to provide more information on health risks mentioned in the article and other health problems. Low in come and community colleges should also have such programs along with community centers. By balancing the budget effectively and cutting down on superfluous costs (perhaps less money going into our military...) we can afford such programs especially if we offer tax reductions for companies and citizens willing to donate to public hospitals.
Since health care is so closely tied to class we as a society should do all we can to make the class gap and the quality of care as equal as possible.
As to what can be done for social classes though there will always be the have and have nots in any society just as in health care there should be measures taken to help lessen the gap. Perhaps by reducing certain taxes on the lower classes and creating more welfare programs, there should also be more government studies as to what exactly are the causes for poverty- a failing school system? Bad neighborhoods with little opportunity for employment? Once the poverty causing factors are accurately found (which they very well could be) there should be something done about them.In my opinion we should grapple with the disparities by closing the gap as much as we can and creating a bigger middle class and by creating national health care for all.

[table]

Class is a though issue. America obviously has classes, always has, and probably will. Capitalism has worked out pretty well so far, so I do not think that that will change anytime soon. The rich will always have more benefits available to them, and the poor will have less.

Usually that is not really a problem. People with low incomes do not need the plasma TVs or the several-hundred-dollar sushi lunches Mr. Miele can afford, but they do need better health care. Ms. Gora did not want to pay for the ambulence. Before reading the article, I had no idea that ambulences cost money. Now I know that they do, and some people cannot afford them. Maybe someday America's health care system will improve, but it might just get worse.

I agree with BrassMonkey, someday the procedures only Mr. Miele could afford will be available to people like Ms. Gora, but by that time Mr. Miele's children or grandchildren will be getting some incredibly effective and incredibly expensive new procedure only available to the upper class. Then again, Ms. Gora's children could become rich and Mr. Miele's children could loose everything they have. Class may be a problem, but it is easier to change one's class than to change one's race.

[wideeyed]

For me I think that class is one of the hardest things to address. I think one of the reasons is that people make up thier own indiviudal opinions on class. Everyone sees people in a different class setting. People with money are always going to be looked upon as high class and because of that people will expect somethng of them. People will expect them to have a nice car, a large house, and be "better". The same thing goes for people who have very little monet,many people will expect that they are uneducated, and perhaps even classless. They only way to fix a prolem like this is to get rid of money, or make money less important to society, but in the world that we are in that seems so impossible.

Health care is certainly tied to class because it all has to do with money. Permium services cost more money, medications and drugs are expensive, top nothc doctors, who have the time to focus on thier individual patients, operations, cat scans, its all costly, even the different types of insurance. The richer you are the better insurance you can afford providing you with better medical opportunites. Unfortunately the government and soceity has not been able to make the vital things avaiable for everyone so the wealthy continue to prosper as the less wealthy are left worse conditions than what they started with.

As many people say and have said before me, education is key. People who don't have the chances to learn about their health conditions should have those chances. From the article it is clear that the ignorant suffered the most and had the most health complications afterwards, while the well informed and his most likely trohpy wife knew about the right foods, health clubs, and doctors.

[bluecollarjob]

reading a lot of people's comments, I think that we can come to the conclusion that ending class in this society would be very hard. Especially in America, the economy driven society in which money is power, and thats about it. Money breeds more money, and poverty does not easily improve itself. It REALLY sucks, but I believe that it is just human nature to place (or want to place) ourselves above others. In our country, money empowers you, so if you have money, you can get yourself better treatment because of the various perks related with money (and the place in society that money lends itself to).

I thought that the reason that Canada had such high taxes on everything, was because it had like, a universal health care system. I am not sure how that works exactly, but it sounds that people are treated relatively equally. Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am). And communism, even though it's viewed by many westerners as being evil, wasn't it supposed to get rid of the whole class system idea? though maybe it perverted the idea, if we want to get rid of the class system, wouldn't that be the only other way to go? I'm not supporting communism or anything, but what else is there to do? Or, are we satisfied enough with our capitalistic society? is that good enough for us?

[justaddwater]

One of the fundamental aspects of capitalism is the concept of class. It is an “American” economic concept that people compete for wealth, and in a competition someone has to win. The idea of getting rid of classes a few decades back would have sounded entirely un-American, and we’d all be accused of being communists.

Health care is tied to class because many people get health care through their jobs. If you have a high paying job, you generally get a good insurance plan, and even if you don’t, you still can afford to buy some on your own. However, if you have a lower paying job you might have a bad plan, or no plan at all. It seems absurd that the people who actually need help are not getting it. It reminds me of those gift baskets they give award presenters at the Emmys and the Oscars. These people are filthy rich celebrities; they don’t need a few thousand dollar gift basket, and are quite able to afford everything in that basket on their own. It just doesn’t make sense, but that’s just the way life works sometimes.

As almosteris mentioned, the US is the only well developed country in the world that does not provide universal health care. I totally agree with almosteris’ plan, to treat hospitals and health care like public schooling. People could pay for the health care in taxes, and, I guess, if they really wanted, could opt for private plans instead of the free plan like parents opting for private schools rather than public. That way, at least everyone would get decent coverage, and no one would complain that their health care options were taken away.

As table and others pointed out, improving public education could make the opportunity to improve public health. If people are educated, they will know when there is a serious problem. They also will get better jobs and hopefully rise up to the level of the higher classes.

[Palsie]

We often hear the phrae "money talks" and it does especially in the case of who gets better care. As seen in the article Mr. Miele, the wealthier man, was able to go to the best hospital in the area, see the best doctor and get immediate care. As the cycle went on with Mr. Wilson and Ms. Gora we saw that the hospitals become poorer and less responsive to their immediate care. Is there a way to solve this? Health care is always a problem and it would be easy to say poof with my magic wand and give everyone in the US health care, but would that even work? We always hear about different campaigns about universal health care and while it is a good idea, because everyone needs healthcare and should be able to get what they need, this problem about class would still be there. Canada has a universal health care system and a good friend of mine who lives in Canada's mom was very sick and needed an operation right away, however her operation, while it was labeled as immediate, wasn't scheduled for several months. His father works in 'the states' and was able to come to the US and pay for his wife's operation. Now she is fine but if she had stayed in Canada and waited her condition may have become much worse or even fatal. This is an example of universal health care going wrong but since they have money my friend's mom was able to pay for her care.
Class has been here forever and it will never go away; there will always be someone richer and/or poorer than you and it's never going change. Sad but true. As Euripedes, and others have said, education is the key to insuring that those that aren't rich can seek adequte care for their conditions by knowing what attention they need. Mr. Miele, although he is the richer man, knew which hospital is the best and what care he needed Ms. Gora was unaware of this and just went to the Hospital she thought she should go to and listened to everything the doctor's had to say. If more information had been given to her about healthcare awareness she would have been more prepared for this situation.

[livinthecharles]

My best friend's dad had a heart attack yesterday morning. Granted he's been in the hospital with heart complications since june, it's still dramatic every time. He's got the best medical treatment available, and the system is still not perfect but I can't imagine where Dan's dad would be if it weren't for the fact that he's got the best doctors in the country. It leads to the question... can society play God to a human being? Classism and racism do this every day, but we all know it isn't right.

So is there any way to stop it? We can't really go around making everybody better and less biased, but what if we do it one person at a time, one action at a time? Classes like FHAO are a good place to start because as palsie said, someone will always be richer or poorer than you, but we can make it less of a competition and a "white people give eachother stuff" and more of an even society where everyone can be equal.

[miss_ArtemIs]

What Professor Ichiro Kawachi said is so right. The class distinctions have been accumalated over time, and there's been so much that's been entwined into society. Upper class people like Mr. Neile has so much conveniences that make it entirely possible for him to recover without problems. He doesn't need to worry about financial costs or the time recovery would take like Ms. Gora.
I do not understand why there must be such a major difference between these three people. They seem to have many similarities; such as smoking and a history of health problems that might be the reason for their heart attacks. And yet these elderly people did not recieve the same treatment, largely due to what they could afford, defining the whole class situation.
These class divisions may be an inspiration for some to strive for "the American Dream", but it is so disheartening that situations like these endangers hundreds of lives everyday here in the land of the free. But with more and more people recognizing why huge class gaps pose even bigger problems, help will surely be delivered. Maybe those who have the power to would lend a hand and prevent the critical damages that hurt their fellow Americans. There will always be some sort of class division amongst society, but that shouldn't stop anyone from recieving health insurance.

[truth_remains]

I believe that it's completely unfair for health care to be determined by the size of one's bank account. I would really like this article to be false, but it is a truth that play out every day.

I like what BrassMonkey said, about cell phones and how they were manufactured cheaply so that now everyone can afford it. There are now drugs that those with low income can now buy, but sometimes the price is only a 10 dollar difference. Some people don't get to the stage of buying medicine because some won't even come out of the emergency room alive.

Justaddwater makes a valid point of education, and this might be off topic, but it reminds me of how BLS is a magnet school, pulling the brightest out of the surrounding public schools, and how other schools look worse than they really are because we have the best here. Some people will be pulled because of what they have, I believe. Better hospitals will pull better equipment and doctors, because they are a higher level, and neighborhood clinics look worse in comparison.

In a capitalistic society, class division will never disappear because of how they can flucuate over time, and quite easily. The Depression during the 1930's is an example, and I think we all have to be reminded that although we live in good times, that can end, and so we must strive to make sure that everyone has the bare neccessities filled out before doing anything else, and that includes education and health care.

[huckabees]

It wold be a lie if I were to say that the general problem presented in Janny Scott's article was a shock. However, the particulars of these three stories were very chilling and disturbing. Clearly a talented writer, janny chose an extremely itnersting approach to her subject: she chose three characters from three different classes, and discussed each of their experiences in response to a heart attack. The article was thorough, articulate, and - as is the sign of any good piece of writing- communicated its subject to the reader so that it truly hit them where it hurts. by the end of the article, (aside from being dizzy) I was overwhelmed by the privileges provided to the rich in matters so fundamental as life and death.

Unfortunately, this has always been the case. As many people stated in their previous posts - and Euripides stated very blunty in the first line of their post - the best in medical care is only truly available to those who can afford it. While medical advances are made all the time, they dont serve to benefit the whole of society (certainly not in the beginning). Instead, they benefit the elite group of Americans who can afford them when they are necessary.

At the core of the issue, it is inexcusable that some people be provided with better health care than others. In essence, it as though society is saying "Person A's life is more worth saving than person B's life, because Person A has much more money." The concept of some people being in more jeopardy when they have some health complication, simply because they don't make as much money as someone else, is quite loathsome.

Hoever, the simple fact is that the problem cannot be solved through eliminating classes. As virtually every other post said, eliminating classes is not possible, nor would it be helpful if it were. It has been proved since the Middle Ages that classes are vital to the maintenence of society. However, the class in which someone belongs need not be so determinative for things such as health care. While I am unsure of the logistics of such a process, it is necessary that society make good health care more available to people who are not necessarily as rich as those who enjoy it now. We cannot live in a society that offers inadequate medical attention to people who need it, but aren't able to afford it. It is inhuman, and a poor reflection on our society. The situation such as the one in Scott's article, in which three people suffering from the same problem, cannot be treated with equal care, should not arise. As a people, we have to make a point of preventing them.