The Black Book of Communism

[jcrane]

Courtois argues that we do not pay enough attention to the crimes committed by the Communists. What do you think? Should we have more museums like the Holocaust Museum, but for the victims of communism. Why do you think that these have become the "forgotten victims?" You may want to read the reviews of Courtois book at

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...stomer-reviews

[Katya]

I think we pay enough attention to the crimes committed by communists by learning communism as we do the Holocaust. It's unfair to say that one is worst than the other; during Stalins rule, millions and millions of people died and suffered. It's also unfair to say that it's not that big of a deal because Stalin did not assassinate people outside of the Soviet Union. So? Does that make them less human?
I think that communist museums- just like the holocaust museums should be built and should be visited, and both subjects should be discussed in school.
It's true, less people have knowledge of the crimes committed by communists. Travel to Moscow or St.Petersburg; and you'll see a bunch of tourists buying souvenirs such as statues of lenin, hats and clothing with the communist star, t-shirts with communist slogans... Have you ever seen Hitler statues being sold on the street, or clothing with the Swastika being worn around town? It must be lack of education; because I highly doubt that any person that has the knowledge of all the atrocities committed would make a joke out of it.
I don't think museums such as the one we were at today should be built anymore... First of all this miseum is built in an old casino. Second of all it looks like this man just found a bunch of artifacts (or made them himself, who knows) and laid them around the floor or put them on random tables. I think i could have designed a nicer museum. Also THE OLYMPIC BEAR should not have a Kolashnekov. This bear is a symbol for unity and peace- although the olympics were not going to be held in the Soviet Union, it was decided that sports should not conflict with politics. So why would you mar this symbol that brought hope to the people that lived in the Soviet Union? And the russian doll with the vampire teeth... seriously- It's like if you saw posters of the statue of liberty holding weapons of mass destruction with evil eyes.

[whatever]

I think that we should have more museums of communism because it is actually alot more interesting and spanned over more time than nazism. I think that people should be educated in Communism because it did kill 100,000,000 people. communism was worse than Nazism but it did span over a longer period of time.

[Pooky]

The reason, I believe that we only mildly concentrate on the crimes commited by the communists, is that they did this in their own countires. Also that we already heard about all the crimes and atrocites commited by the Nazi's. In this history class because we have to do interviews and museum sitings, we do understand better life under communism. The Holocaust museum seemed to be much better than the communist museum, maybe it was that they had more visuals than than huge descriptions, maybe it was that they had music playing that was composed during that era, or maybe it was that location was better chosen. But for all these reasons the communist museam was much smaller and much poorly arranged.

The victims of these crimes commited by the communists should pushed for better museums like the Holocaust museum that are well kept. Overall though the communist museum was alright and if you didnt know anything about communism and communism in the Czech Republic the museum could have been very informative.

[kateJo]

I agree with Katya that people should pay just as much respect for those who died under communism as they do for victims of the Holocaust. It does not matter who killed them or where the atrocities took place; what matters is that millions of people died under communist rule, either from starvation or other actions. I think that the reason people in today's society know more about the Holocaust and are more respectful towards the event is because of the motives behind the killing of the Jews as opposed to those who died under communism. Those who died under communism could have been killed for a number of reasons or, ironically, for no reason at all. One can argue that the Jews were exterminated for no reason, but a more valid argument would be that they were killed because of their beliefs. Whether one is religious or not, most people identify with religion and the presence of God in life; because of this mutual feeling, people tend to sympathize more for people persecuted for their faith. Some of us can count the number of people we know who lived under communism on one hand. I personally did not know anything about communism until we covered it in class. The only thing I would have been able to tell you about communism was something about the Red Scare in the United States. Growing up in the United States, you usually don’t learn about atrocities committed by officials of the communist government in the Czech Republic and the Soviet Union. Usually the holocaust is at least attempted, but Schindler's List is popped in the VCR and the unit is over. Yes, I think that the world today pays too little attention to the crimes committed by the communists; however, I do not think it is a matter of ignoring the subject, I think that people simply don’t know enough, or anything at all, about the crimes.
I also agree that, yes, there should be museums and exhibits to help people learn about communism, but I don’t think these museums should be like the "museum" we visited recently. Being located behind McDonalds and in an old casino doesn’t exactly "set the mood" to learn about history that played such a large role in the world today. The Holocaust museums we have been to are set aside so that people can pay respect and learn about the holocaust. They aren't 4 little rooms with a bunch of artifacts cramped together.

[Flamur]

Of course we should have museums of communism such as the museums of the Holocaust. People don't take communism serious enough, but they take the Holocaust as the biggest atrocity in human history. Communism killed as much, if not more, people as Nazis did. And I think people don’t take communism serious enough because they are not educated well about it. Like Katya said: there are people walking around with communist hats and stuff but you can never see a person walking around with a Swastika sign and a Hitler mustache or something. I think people take the Holocaust more seriously because there are death camps and very well organized museums. On the other hand, Communists didn't make death camps, so people need to make very well organized museums all over the world. Another reason why people don't pay serious attention to communism is because the people that died were mostly Soviets. I'm not saying that people don't pay attention to Soviets but it wasn't a big race like Judaism, and Stalin’s goals weren't as big as Hitler’s. I personally think that the Russian Government should build many Communism museums in Russia and encourage or fund other countries to build communism museums. I didn't go to the Communism museum yet, but from what I hear, it's very poorly made. However, I've been to Terezin and the museums there were very well made and I think that they should make museums like that for communism.

[whatever]

Generally we associate genocide and work camps with the nazi's but the comminists also adopted such things into their regime. I think that communists are given much attention but it is false interpretations from things that have often been construed from as far back as WW2 and subsequent to that, the cold war. It is mostly the western european nations along with america that need the education in the matter because they are still victim to past propaganda. we generally think that communism is all about "big brother" and his constant spying and people disappearing in the night never to be seen again. we see the communist states as a place of degredation, illiteracy, starvation. The is quite the contrary, no one starved, unless in gulags, in cuba today there is more literacy than in america (not to surprised), the places weren't pretty but they weren'd degrading. I am not for communism (although some principles I agree with) but we need to be more educated in it to really undersand it.

In comparison between communism and nazism, both had their atrocities but the Nazi's were more open with them. Going to villages to exterminate people, many programs such as the T4 program and the euthanasia campaign. basically what the nazi's were doing was more advertised where the communists were much more secretive about what hey were doing and they kpt hidden documents etc. Also there is the novelty aspect, communism is much older than the nazi's so people pay much less attention to it where the Nazi's were a shock and only lasted six years so they burnt out rather than faded away, so they are more remembered. Communism still is going on and was going on before Nazism so people pay less attention to it becuse it is just there and no onw cares.

[d_jenicek]

I really think that students should be educated more thoroughly on the crimes committed by the communist regime from 1946 on to 1989 in most of Central and Eastern Europe. Why is it that people care less if tourists wear clothes with the Communist Star or hats with the hammer and the sickle?

I think that the easiest way to explain people's tolerance to the crimes the communists had committed is because there still is a significant amount of people who follow the communist party; in some countries, it is even the majority! If Communism was banned just as much as Nazism is banned here in the czech Republic, what would all the people who follow the local CSSD party think? Although they are a minority, they still represent several thousands of people.

It is illegal to wear armbands with the Swastika in the Czech Republic even though the atrocities the Nazis had committed were not of the same magnitude as the crimes committed by the Communists. However, there are no political parties that represent such extremely fascist ideas. Illegalising the Hammer and the Sickle would cause unnecessary anger among the thousands of people who still follow the regime, including the Czech Prime Minister.

[Claus]

In my opinion, the crimes of the Communists are way too under estimated compared to the severety of them. The crimes of communism should be paid better attention to, and should not be left alone like they were not worth our attention. The Communists killed more people during the war than the Germans did, but because the Germans went after the Jews, they get all the attention, as Jews have been followed throughout history, and everybody feels more sorry for them than for the Russians. It is true that the Russians killed their own people and that the Germans killed others besides their own people, and this is perhaps why people pay more attention to the question of the Jews than to the Russians. It is also true that the Germans committed genocide in the full meaning of the word, where as the Russians did not do so. They killed many people, but because the killings did not fit with the definition of "genocide", people pay less attention to the crimes committed by the communists.

I believe that there should be as many museums dedicated to the communists as there are to the Nazis, but it is also a question about money, and since more people know more about the nazis, they are more inclined to go to a Holocaust museum, than to a Communist Museum. Hence, there are more museums concerning the Holocaust than the communists.

I think the victims have become the forgotten victims because people right after the war paid much more attention to the Nazis as they had fallen, and so all the attention was averted from the communists. Perhaps it is also a question of time. 50 years after the Nazis, we know everything, so perhaps in 37 years from now, the victims of the nazis will have become the "forgotten victims" and all the attention will have been turned towards the victims of communism.

[almaz]

I believe that the students learn enough about the crimes the communists have made, but maybe the scholars need to pay more attention to the crimes committed by communists. For me it is clear that Stalin and other communist leaders have made equal crimes to Nazi’s. I understand that communism has killed a lot of innocent people no matter what race they were. However I believe that making museums would not lead to more education, and there seems to be a lot of books written about communism, but there is not enough scholars who study communism in depth like they study Nazism.

However, when tourists and other people take communism as a joke is a crime. Yes, maybe those people never experience communism unlike some people did, but it is really disrespectful to the people who have dies. I also believe that writing OKUPANTI on Red Army statues saying that they have liberated Prague is also a crime. One can understand that the communist have made a muddle in Czechoslovakia but the statue is for the men who have fought trying to liberate Prague from Nazi’s and many of them have died, one should pay respect to those brave men.

Of course one should pay respect to the victims of communism just like the fatalities of Holocaust. I believe that Courtois considers victims of communism forgotten because; for example there are people who believe Holocaust never happened but many people know that communism has happened. Also it could be because there are vast majority of people who believe that communism were the decent times, while many would say that Holocaust never was a decent time.

Almaz

[StephF]

We should pay more attention to the crimes committed by the communists. Museums should be erected. People suffered and they have the right to a memorial. The victims of communism have been “forgotten” for many reasons. I can not speak for all school systems but I know in California I learned very little about the crimes of communism. In the limited time we had for history we tended to focus on events that occurred more than 100 years ago.

Also, there is the factor of time. The Nazis’ crimes were committed nearly 60 years ago so time has allowed knowledge to disseminate. Many people did not learn about the Holocaust until 20 years later. Communism fell in many countries less than 20 years ago so perhaps more time is needed for the public to learn about the crimes of communism, for more historians to write books on the subject.

[DaSerb]

I believe that a lot of attention is payed to the crimes of communism but perhaps there could be more, and there could be more museums, books, and coarses that people could take to learn more. I believe that the reason not as much attention is payed to victims of comunism as victims of holocaust is because Hitlers holocaust was taking place all over Europe and it caused a world war, and Stalin only executed people inside his own country. After the second world war it was obvious as to what happened because we found the camps and other facilities yet after comunism not much was known, the system had drawn people so much into being silent that they were still afraid to talk. Another thing is that when people talk about communist crimes they think of the USSR but there were also other countries that crimes against peope were commited. Even if they opened museums for the communist holocaust they would most probably be biased. Even if people knew about the crimes of communism they would still put the facts aside and say that communist crimes were not as bad as the Nazi Crimes. If the Italian tourists that walk around Prague and buy communist hats and brochures were told that communism comitted a lot a crimes and wearing a communist hat would be same as wearin a Nazi hat, they would still wear it. I guess that deep inside peoples heads they think that Nazism is an immoral and bad sistem, yet the communist system is perhaps one of the best ones that anyone has ever came up with but just was not carried out the right way by the leaders.

[witetrashman]

I think that the victims of Communism need to be recognized. The extent of the abuse that people have suffered under Communism is rarely recognized. It is important to remember that part of history. People should know what really happened under Communism. The justice system of the USSR was an integral factor as to why Communism didn't work. But the main reason why the crimes of Communism aren't very well known is because it has not entered into pop culture. Everywhere you turn, you can find books, movies, and pictures of the Nazis and the Holocaust. It has turned into one large popular psuedo intellectual topic of conversation. The representations of the holocaust has become a travesty of the real tragedy that it intends to represent. It could be said that not many people really understand the Holocaust and Nazi germany any more than they understand the crimes of communist Russia.

[Eddy]

The communists committed more crimes and killed more people then the Nazis, and I think that students should be educated about communism the same as about the Holocaust. The communist regime lasted for 43 years and that is much more then the Holocaust. Communism was not a bad idea but they took it the other way going what Stalin did, killing his own people who opposed him.
People still today see communism as a good idea and some even today follow it. That is why people don’t see it so bad. However the Nazis idea was totally wrong it’s against human rights and people understand that, but communism isn’t it’s a idea which people think it works but the truth is that it doesn’t work. The second point I want to make is that communism is not banned, the government doesn’t arrest you when we believe in that idea but Nazism is banned the government will arrest you if you have a sign that shows a positive side about Nazism.

Communism is not a terrible or incorrect idea it’s just that it doesn’t work. Nazism was a incorrect and terrible idea that is why students study it more.

[Enemy]

I think that the crimes of communism should be remembered. More like the people who have died in certain countries. What I mean is that I do not understand what is ment by the crimes of Communism. You are probably think I am insane or a Communist now don't you. Well I think I am not insane though how can one really be sure and I am not a Communist. What I mean is that Communism is an idea not a man, that is where I get stuck thinking bout how can an idea commit a crime. Coming back to for example the crimes of Josef Jugashvili also known Josef Stalin. He has done horrible crimes against his people. For example if you were a red army soldier and you were a P.O.W. comming back to your motherland (the U.S.S.R.). If you won't be shot you would be arrested and sent to siberia to some coal mines or uranium mines. All kind of people were sent to Siberia many of them were even respected heroes of USSR. Therefor, i think that the crimes of Communist leaders be remembered. It is very sad that people do not remember all of the suffering those people in charge of the goverment have brought to the people in this world. There are other casulties of USSR that are not disscused, one and the most clear one to me is the "Take or I kill you" Stalin system. That is why so many red army soldiers have died, because stalin has told his commanders to take for example some mountain or he will kill them. To save their life the Generals had to trow their people at a massacare. Coming back to the original question, the victims of currupt leaders MUST be remembered.